Neighbourhood Forum

Paignton and Preston Coastal Defence Scheme

Torbay Council has asked Forum members (and the wider community) to provide feedback on the proposed “Defence Scheme” for Paignton and Preston seafronts.

We have received Forum meeting presentations from:

David Edmondson, the Assistant Director of Planning, Housing & Climate Emergency (on 29 October 2020) and Kevin Mowat, Director of Place (on 25 November 2020).

These notes are based upon those presentations, and will be updated as and when more detailed information becomes available.

The Council intends to submit a planning application in early 2021, and commence work on site around Autumn 2021.

The funding is said to not draw significantly on the Council’s existing finances.

Here is a link to a DevonLive article that shows more images and details of the proposal.

 

Tuesday 6 April 2021

Flood Task & Finish Group.

Notes from the meeting held 29th March 2021 4.00 -6.00 p.m. via Zoom

Apologies: Simon de Vay - detained in London

Chaired by David Edmondson in the absence of Kevin Mowat who was on leave.

27 persons present.

1) Update by Jo Penhaligan, committee engagement officer, who explained she'd been in position since January and presented the information that had gone out:

A web page on Torbay Council Website

An article in Preston Beach Hut

An article in Council's 8 page spread delivered to 60,000 homes across the bay.

Press release distributed to all key media, Councillors, Community Partnerships, Neighbourhood Forums and other key contacts.

40 posters put up across 15 sites across Paignton and Preston - between Broadsands to Palace Avenue mentioned.

2 social media posts on Council's site.

2 articles in One Torbay eNewsletter (over 7,500 subscribers)

730 hits on the website information with over 500 of them being unique visitors with an average of 5 and a half minutes per view. (This is from a population of approx. 75,000).

A video went out in February on the Council's Social Media sites, along with questionaires.

Several people present, particularly Trevor Cornish of Paignton Club who walks daily from Preston to the Paignton Club, said that they had not seen the posters displayed (nor had the writer) although Lionel Uden said that he had seen them. Someone else said that the only one seen on the sea front was one by the Vue Cinema - very small and behind opaque glass.

Jo was asked about the original thought of displaying posters on the Midas Hoardings around the two new hotels being constructed on the sea front, but she explained that things became a little complicated there, so it hadn't happened.

Freda Bamford Dwane asked if she might be missing a trick here, as she'd received from Catherine Fritz, Chair of the Neighbourhood Forum, some amazing projections of the regeneration of the promenade area, with alternative suggestions of wall locations and wondered where this fitted into the discussion - but was advised that this item was to be covered by Cllr Dave Thomas.

Cllr Dave Thomas said that some people were in receipt of diagrams to share alternative schemes produced by the Community Partnership, which were an opportunity for conversation.

Agenda Item 2) Tim Jones head of Engineering at TDA explained that they had been looking at the scheme for 10 years or more (writer's note: please bear in mind that this only became public knowledge and open to discussion in December 2020 thanks to Cllr Chris Lewis).

Tim Jones said that he will circulate an A4 summary with the thought processes. It is normal for the TDA to put the business case to the Council. However, you will recall from previous meetings that even Kevin Mowat of Torbay Council, was not aware of the detail of the scheme until very recently.

Tim explained that tanks had been installed under the green to collect surface water and it must be born in mind that the land on the green is virtually impermeable - therefore, if any barrier were to be constructed on the town side of the green, as has been suggested, the danger would be of creating a lagoon, with all the health and safety implication that that would bring.

The idea of a breakwater out at sea had been suggested but we are in area of marine conservation, with sea grasses, sea horses and submerged caves, so this was discounted. The detailed information will be shared, Tim was adamant that nothing will be submitted to Planning until agreement is reached.

Lorraine ? raised a question about sea flood water coming up from beneath properties during tidal flooding, and Freda Bamford Dwane explained that when Kernou Road (where she lives) experienced flooding from the worst incident in October 2004 there was evidence of the water level at a minimum of 10 inches on their patio with no water inside the property (thanks to effective double glazed doors and patio doors), and the water did not come up though their wooden floors.

Colin Hurst said that there was a huge area not clear as to how the plan was agreed on, and there was a major concern over graffiti (this will be addressed in Lydia Johnson's presentation later in the meeting).

Cllr Chris Lewis, as a councillor for Preston, was very concerned that there was no wall proposed for Marine Parade. He was particularly concerned for the kiosk at the entrance to Marine Parade. This is something that can go for further discussion.

Mike Morey said, before having to leave the meeting to attend another, that discussion must not stop here, but must continue. We can't please everyone, but we need a majority before it's taken to planning in two months.

Katie ? said that technical reports need to be in the public domain, and would appreciate the Council publishing them all. Environment Agency funding was agreed in 2019, but still had only just come before the public. There were 9 different schemes discussed, and only 5 have been mentioned, so we will be glad to see the other 4.

Opening/gates - how will these function? manual/electonic? The Beaches Team led by Simon Pinder will be responsible for closing these. The majority will be hinged gates with pairs being present at road openings. Further consultation needs to take place on the up and over points of access.

3) Details from Cllr Christine Carter/Tom Littlewood/Lydia Johnson. Cllr Carter has been in touch with Churston Grammar School and Paignton College and submitted art content ideas to Lydia Johnson, who has published on the Council website suggestions of illustrations for the proposed wall. The final ideas will be in panels produced in tiles (you need to see the illustration of these, as I find it difficult to explain - they are published on the Council Website), and the challenge will be between making the relief sufficient to be a graffiti deterrent, and not too deep to prevent ability of cleaning off any graffiti managing to challenge that deterrent. The artwork will only go so far to deter graffiti and a cleaning management will have to be in place. There are many artworks of this type in place, e.g. Gloucester. So far the suggestions are beach huts, lobster pots, bathing machines, sailing boats and the pier. Once agreed this will be arranged at intervals along the length of the wall.

Comments are welcomed on the Council website.

Lydia explained that they were speaking with the concrete fabricators about the colour of the wall, and how to introduce this.

Cllr Lewis said that we have seen in the past there has been lack of maintenance and the council will have to put a sum aside for this, and should be a planning condition. EA funding is for the capital element and does not include ongoing maintenance and repair. If the EA actually owned the wall they would get funding for maintenance from central Government. It is thought that Section 106 monies could be channelled towards this.

The next meeting was agreed for 4.00 p.m. 26th April.

Monday 29 March 2021

Meeting of the Paignton Sea Wall group. Monday 29th March 2021.

Report by Lionel Uden.

The Zoom meeting started promptly at 16.00 and was chaired by Dave Edmundson, Torbay Council Assistant Director of Planning, Housing and Climate Change.

Kevin Mowat, who has the remit for the sea wall was on leave.

We heard from Tim Jones, Head of Engineering for TDA.

He related that discussion regarding sea protection for Paignton was first raised about ten years ago. He stated that much of the sea front and lower town of Paignton was on reclaimed land.

The level of some parts of Paignton were 2.3 metres A.o.D. (above ordnance datum) above sea level to you and me, whereas some of the highest tides were 2.8 metres AoD so even today we have a flood risk for many properties, right up to the top of Torbay Road, as far as the bus station and the surrounding roads and properties.

In those years there were nine considerations. Here are the main details of four of them.

1. Do nothing and there will be flooding events, roughly one in every ten years. This was rejected.

2. Enhancing the primary sea defence. This would require a sea wall with a height of 2.8 to 3.2 metres. Also this wall would require some level of secondary protection.

3. Building along the line suggested in the council’s recently published plans. In this scheme the height of the wall could be restricted to 1.1 metres at the Paignton end and 1.8 metres at the Preston end. The added advantage of building along this line, the seaward edge of the green, there would be some level of secondary protection as much of the force of the waves would be expended before hitting the wall. Further, at the Preston end, much of the wall would be hidden by running between the beach huts. Many of the storms that the the wall is designed to protect, the lower areas of the town are expected to be accompanied with high rainfall and this needs consideration otherwise a different cause of flooding could occur. The soil of the green is virtually impermeable, water hardly drains through it. Tim Jones explained that there are huge tanks beneath the green designed to hold the excess water that would run down from higher ground.

4. Some sort of offshore structure was considered but offshore Torbay is a marine protected area, sea grass, sea horses, etc. So that is a ‘no go.’

The other schemes were not mentioned or at least I didn’t hear them. I assume they were non starters.

The new plans/drawings by Richard Kaskow that appeared today were discussed but to build a wall of sufficient height on the line of the existing sea wall (the seaward side of the prom road) would mean a considerably higher wall and it would be subject to the full force of the oncoming waves.

There were other considerations as well but I couldn’t write quickly enough to record them all. Suffice to say that they were not considered viable.

Much of the remaining time was spent regarding the designs to be depicted in relief on the pre-cast sections and Lydia Johnson, who has been co-ordinating suggestions gave us some idea of what was possible. These panels, precast concrete sections, would be about 2 metres long and it is envisioned that there would be 6 different designs repeating themselves along the length of the wall. She has had several suggestions from local groups, e.g. Churston School, Torbay Youth Trust and Paignton Community College amongst others. Nothing has yet been decided. She has had 765 views of the designs. Design consultation closes, 9th April.

Tim Jones talked about what methods might be used to block off the necessary openings. Hinged gates were his preferred method but openings would be kept to the minimum considered necessary. There would be some ‘up and over’ places in addition to openings.

There was much criticism regarding the lack of publicity and public consultation. We heard from Jo Penhaligan of Torbay council that there had been publicity on the council website, in the Beach Hut magazine, an 8 page spread in the council’s news sheet.

The web page had been viewed 730 times. 4 articles had appeared in the local press, Devon Live, Torbay Weekly and the local radio as well as 40 posters showing the sea wall plans on sites along the sea front. I can vouch for the posters, I have seen them.

Dave Edmondson made assurances that the community’s views would be listened to and noted in particular questions regarding graffiti. Lydia Johnson expressed the view that as the panels would have relief designs cast into them they would be less attractive to graffiti artists.

The planning application, originally due March/April will now be delayed until consultation is completed.

The meeting closed at 18.00.

The next meeting is scheduled for Monday 26th April at 16.00

 

Monday 11 January 2021

Zoom meeting Flood Scheme Task & Finish Group

23 people present: led by Kevin Mowat (KM), Director of Place.

Dave Stewart (DS) was back from sick leave to give some background information.

- He worked in the early stages with the EU to secure the grant for the project.

- He's now in the process of applying for further funding.

- Addressing the concern about the engagement of a London artist for the artwork on the wall rather than using local talent, DS explained discussion took place with Tom Littlewood of Ginkgo Projects, and that the work went out to tender and there were 41 applicants countrywide and from a shortlist of 5; Lydia Johnson was appointed in late June.

- KM asked if anything was finalised - not yet as she'd been told to hold back until ideas come from this group. She will be asked to be present at the next meeting.

- There is to be a meeting on 18th January with KM, Colin Hurst - Town Partnership (who expressed disappointment at being involved at such a late stage)- and those businesses directly affected by the positioning of the wall and these discussions to be brought back to the Task & Finish Group for it's next meeting.

Cllr Chris Lewis (CL) (who initiated this group) was disappointed that we had not been involved in choosing the artist and asked that lessons should be learned from this situation.

KM reassured that nothing will go through until there is more agreement - he has not yet heard from several of the seafront businesses - hopefully to be resolved by the 18th January meeting.

Cllr CL said that the kiosk operators are leaseholders - has the council contacted kiosk holders?

Nicolle Amil (NA) said that she was disappointed that we have been involved at such a late stage, and should have been from the beginning, not when it was a virtual fait accompli.

KM said that NA can contact the artist directly, as art is subjective. Perhaps an advocate from Paignton to liaise with Lydia and Cllr Jane Barnby accepted that role. She expressed reservations of being able to communicate with Lydia, and KM agreed that art is subjective, but we must insist that the meaning of the artwork must be obvious and not need interpretive plaques (which was the case on Beacon Quay). We are looking at perhaps 4 designs that can be repeated along the length of the wall.

Cllr Dave Thomas (DT) asked how much money from the recently acquired Torbay Council Future High Streets Funding of £13.36 million would need to be directed to providing the street furniture, plantings and other aesthetic work which is not covered by the Environment Agency money, and KM advised that he was working with the cabinet in an effort to downsize the contribution as the Bid was a lower figure than the application for £19 million.

Jo Penhaligan (hope I've spelt that correctly) of Torbay Council said that the information has been included in the next Beach Hut and free Torbay Weekly, but the hoarding information discussed at the last meeting was not yet in place.

Cllr Hill asked if KM knew how the glass barriers installed at Sidmouth had stood up to the waves, and was advised that, yes they had stood up to the waves, but sadly had not proved to be vandal proof.

Next Meeting end of the month where the positioning of flood gates will be discussed, together with the up and over access - steps and ramps. KM said please let him know anything else that anyone wants to be discussed and it can be put on an Agenda.

Freda Bamford Dwane

Note: Artist's name is Lydia Johnson from the Citizens Design Bureau

Comments


Thursday 4 February 2021 21:03
- Justin waye
Why would a wall be built on the green side of the road where the sea never reaches, The sea level historical data is inaccurate, neap and spring tide lines have remained the same as long as I have owned boats etc 30+ years at Paignton. Also if so worried about the sea flooding the area why just build a wall when the water table will raise underneath the ground, rendering a wall useless.. or are you expecting a tsunami?

Monday 15 February 2021 14:28
- Colin Hurst
This proposal is better than nothing but are there other possible alternatives not discussed? This wall will change the face of Paignton so it should not be sneaked in under the Radar. There is some consultation but that has only come into existence due to pressure from Local Councillors and the Community Partnership. A planning application is to be submitted either this month or next, in view of the level of consultation is this right? It is said that if the whole project if not in place by the middle of May we will loose the money £3M) from the Environmental Agency, is this true, it is hard to believe that it is? This is a cheap wall there may be better ways to solve this problem but this will need time>

Wednesday 17 February 2021 11:35
- Ken
I am a little concerned that this sea wall is the only option on the table. If you go to Paignton beach you will see that the original sea wall has been taken down, surely this must contribute to the defences and could be reinstated at a lot less cost as the foundations are already there and integrating glass panels could help lesson the affect on the views.
Another problem I see is that people talk about erosion whereas if you look closely you will see the opposite.
The beaches at Goodrington are known to me more, so I look at them, and over the last 5 years the beach has risen over 3 feet, indeed I believe the concrete steps that originally took you down to the beach are at least 6 feet under the sand.
This is not a case of the sea eroding, more that the sea is creating its own way to get above the sea walls on our beaches and cause flooding.So why not lower the beaches and bring the original walls into operation again.There is of course a bonus in this in that the removed beach has a value.
The sea walls in Paignton,as there are two, if you count the lower prom to be a defensive wall, have been taken out of the equation in regards to stopping flooding simply because of the height of the sand.
If the Council push ahead with their proposed wall then any views from Esplanade Rd. and the green will be a 10 foot high barrier. Why 10 ft because the ground level is already some 5 feet lower that the height of the proposed base on any new wall.
I also noted that businesses along the Esplanade Rd. have 3foot high walls already but do not have flood defence gateways duo any flood waters can get in, this could be tackled using flood gates and not cost the council but be paid for by those businesses.
A lot of the problem seems also to be with the surface water system, this has very little to do with the sea levels but more to do with old and inadequate machinery that is used to pump rain water away.
Lastly , any wall placed along the sea side of the green is going to create a very different feel to the area,I wonder if the council have other ideas for this wall, is it to make a statement? Brings to mind a certain palm tree on a roundabout. I am not a Geologist and my views are simply that very little consultation has been taken and no alternate ideas put forward and in this age I would think there must be alternatives.
Tuesday 15 December 2020

Seafront defence task and finish group meeting. (Report 1).

The meeting started promptly at 16.00 and seemed to be well attended by several councillors. I couldn’t tell how many as I couldn’t see all of them on screen. However I did spot Freda.

This was the second meeting of this committee.

I had gone through all of the information that appeared on the PNF website and had a few questions that I would have liked answers to but there was no open forum or opportunity to ask them.

From what I gathered, it would seem that the building of the wall was a done deal, it was just the details that are to be decided on. The first half hour of this one hour meeting was given over to much discussion about publicising the wall. There were questions about whether PNF had put anything on their website.

Councillor Dave Thomas said he had tried to google PNF but could only find the PNP.

One of the council employees eventually found the PNF website. There was a very valid suggestion that a prominent link from PNP to PNF would be a good idea.

Once the PNF site was found the sites Sea Wall information was shared. There was much praise for the comprehensive way in which the information was shown and in particular for PNF’s webmaster.

One suggestion for a public display was to put a detailed display on the fencing that is around the Midas temporary storage site. Kevin Mowat said that the council had reserved the right to be able to do something like that. Kate Spencer, one of K.M.’s staff was keen to progress publication of the wall in a prominent public position where it would be easily seen by the general public as they were walking at the sea front during the Christmas period.

During the second half of the meeting it soon became apparent that the wall would be made of precast concrete which is probably very sensible as it would be stronger than a brick or natural stone construction. The discussion then centred around sculptured decorations. There was a strong general consensus that local artists should be used and suggestions included, possibly, students from Paignton Tech College.

I got the distinct impression that generally, very few people in Paignton were aware of the proposal to build the wall. As I have said it seems that the building of it seems a done deal but there are several questions to be answered.

Drainage is a major question. When the sea overtops the wall where will that water go? Presumably this would be happening in conjunction with a storm and therefore heavy and probably prolonged rain. This brings the probability of excess water flowing down from higher ground that would normally drain out to sea but with a sea wall this would not be possible. We don’t want to prevent one form of flooding only to create another one.

I’m sure this has been thought about but this meeting didn’t mention it.

There is one unconnected but positive side effect that building a sea wall would bring. It would stop/make it more difficult for unauthorised vehicles and caravans to invade Paignton green.

The meeting wound up at 16.50. Next meeting, 11th January with a preliminary planning application in February. Apparently there is some urgency regarding the planning application in order that a funding deadline isn’t missed. There is an initial expectation that work on construction could possibly start around August 2021.

Lionel Uden.

Comments


Thursday 17 December 2020 23:31
- Anonymous
It is no use the Council looking at overtopping without also considering how to combat the rise in sea level affecting the areas of Paignton that are or will be below sea level. As much of the area down from the railway was built on marsh land it is clear that the sea will encroach from below the existing sea wall as the foundations are too shallow.

Thursday 14 January 2021 08:45
- Colin Rivers
I have read through this and following articles and still have absolutely no idea where or what this wall is being planned. Could you please enlighten me and provide a link to the website mentioned in the article
Many thanks

Friday 15 January 2021 23:57
- Matthew Libby
Of all the things that Torbay should be spending money on and this is what our council comes up with? For the love of god and all things holy, please please please get in contact with me and I will give you some guidance
Tuesday 15 December 2020

Seafront defence task and finish group meeting. (Report 2).

Mostly Councillors in attendance.

Kevin Mowat (Director of Place) is anxious to involve the Chambers and is prepared to give them the presentation he's already made to the Neighbourhood Forum and the Town Partnership.  Sally Cope (Paignton chair) had been invited to this meeting, but Kevin was advised by a person present that there was a local Chambers meeting today at 4.00, to she would have been at that.

Kate Spencer discussing about further community involvement and will have something on the website by the end of the week (I don't actually know to which website she was referring! - I'm presuming a Council one)

Cllr Dave Thomas said he'd not received a notification from the Forum, as is their wont when something needs attention, however,  David Edmondson found the site and the information on the Flood Plan was on there and shared his screen.

Kevin Mowat remarked on what a wonderful job had been done, and said he must congratulate Catherine and her team

The Council is still working on the artwork, and it would be better if the planning application is deferred until late February, to make sure that more people know about the proposals.

Kevin Mowat was very concerned that the artist was from London and not a local artist, and is to look into why he wasn't consulted on this (he was quite concerned).

There was much discussion on how to get the information to enough people - notices along the seafront, utilisation of the hoarding around the hotel construction sites - (Midas does not need the second accommodation block cabin - they've sorted spacing adequately), Next Door (social media), Beach Hut - although the January deadline has been missed, and February could be too late, Vue Cinema, CAB, Libraries.   Leaflets were also suggested by Cllr Celia Brown.  Kevin Mowat said that Kate is capturing these ideas, although she thought it unlikely that she'd be able to get anything up before Christmas to capture the seafront walkers over that period.

Torbay Times - although many people said they don't receive one (myself included, although I didn't say so!)

Cllr Anne Brooks suggested that during construction perhaps some uplighting could be positioned on the land side of the wall to make a feature of the artwork.

More talk of the artwork and guidance is needed as to just what illustrates our Geopark Status - Jurrasic Coast lends itself to fossils, but what of Geopark?  Someone said there's special sea grasses offshore where sea horses live, and that could be a possibility - but it seems that guidance is needed.  There are also dolphins offshore.

Back to the art work and the concern that it should involve local artists - the college or schools and then it could be signed and attributed.  Kevin felt that even he was playing catch up with that part of the topic as the TDA dealt with it, but it was strongly felt that the Culture Board should have chosen a local artist.

I didn't speak, but I put in the chat the Lee Pickering provided the artwork for the Paignton Chamber, and is a brilliant local artist.

Cllr Mike Morey said that we must be sure that we don't go over the timeline for the availability of the money from the Environment Agency.

Conclusion - there needs to be more local consultation, and there is concern that not enough people know about the project - hence the deferral of the planning application to mid to late February, with the work still proposed to commence late August.

Kevin Mowat said that he hasn't yet been able to discuss with Dave Stewart the possibility of repositioning the sea wall, as he's still not back in action.

No discussion took place on positioning of gaps in the walls, although during the discussion it was mentioned that the gaps need to be near the kiosks and discussion needs to take place with the kiosk holders.

In short seemingly not a lot of progress, but certainly concern that local opinions should be widely sought.

Freda Bamford Dwane

The Background

Predictions due to the Climate Emergency will see the sea level rise in Torbay by over 1m. In the next 100 years the frequency and impact of water coming over the top of the sea walls will increase resulting in more infrastructure and properties being affected by flooding.

On top of that, more intense rainfall will increase surface run-off and hence increase the risk of localised flooding and consequent erosion.

The current discharge system cannot cope with that increase in water. The existing drainage systems already have hydraulic capacity issues and therefore more intense rainfall will only increase the flood risk from these systems.

Properties at risk:

At present, there are 88 residential properties at risk. Over a 20-year time frame this rises to 96; and to 169 over 50-years.

At present, there are 122 commercial properties at risk. Over a 20-year time frame this rises to 142; and to 183 over 50-years.

After the proposed scheme has been implemented, the number of properties at risk falls dramatically:

Residential properties at risk: At present sea levels: 1. After 20-years: 1; and after 50-years: 1.

Commercial properties at risk: At present sea levels: 0. After 20-years: 0; and after 50-years: 3

The following image shows the present day flood areas, how the flood areas will look in fifty years, and the almost complete removal of risk when the scheme goes ahead.

Attachments

Comments


Tuesday 8 December 2020 17:28
- Kim Maidment
Will this wall actaully be sufficient in 50 years time? The Seafront has overtopped for many years when a Tidal Surge comes up the Channel, there is a Spring tide and an onshore wind. This doesn't happen that often. But I saw a rise of 1.8m mentioned, most of Torquay Harbour will be under water by then. Some of the designs you showed were from Morecombe and they are nice. I think eventually a Tidal Barrage of some sort will need to be built from Brixham to Hope's Nose. This will also be able to generate Tidal Electricity but eventually the only way to stop global warming is for governments to stop encouraging people to over populate or nature will do it for them as it is doing now.

Tuesday 8 December 2020 17:46
- Jan MacLeod
I'm glad that the Council are thinking ahead & putting plans in mind for climate change.

Wednesday 16 December 2020 14:56
- Maggie Loates
According to the presentation made to the Forum by Dave Edmondson and Kevin Mowat, the new sea wall will only address overtopping. From Lionel's report, there does not appear to have been anything said at the meeting about the flooding caused by water seeping under the present sea wall from the river that runs under the Green.

Wednesday 13 January 2021 23:25
- Anonymous
To say the sea level will raise over 1meter in the next 10p years is ridiculous. I have been a boat owner in Paignton for 30 years+ and the sea level is exactly the same on spring and neap tides as it's always been. A better sea defense though if done well could stop the excess water when we get our big Easterly blasts. The public, especially those in the very local area should be consulted and heard due to the covenants on the land, which might I add have been ignored with no public consultation for the building site offices. It's about time the council started to appreciate just who they are serving and start to be more transparent.

Sunday 17 January 2021 18:18
- Tim Durrant
I was very gl;ad to hear of these proposals. The idea of putting a significant wall between the greens and the promonade at both Paignton and Preston seem an excellent compromise of location v height. There is clearly a difficulty with protecting the (fairly) shelters, but having a 'normal' promonade view of the sea with a wall protection for the spring high tides/easterly gales and anticipated rising sea levels is a very logical and public friendly approach. In an ideal world the chelters could be reloctaed behind the walls and placed on higher mound settings. Whether this is practical or not I leave tot hos emore expert in the subject matter.

Storm Damage

As an illustration of the damage done by storms locally, the Council cites Storm Emma from 2018. The Climate Emergency predictions state that this will happen more frequently.

Attachments

Comments


Tuesday 8 December 2020 17:54
- Jan MacLeod
Paignton's greens are reclaimed land as is the land up to the railway so drainage is poor.
The storms that are becoming more frequent have proved that something needs to be put in place to prevent the flooding of private & commercial properties.

Wednesday 9 December 2020 14:31
- Anonymous
Can you please confirm all the pictures are of Paignton? I think I can see Torquay, Brixham and Goodrington as well as certainly one of unknown location. Not too sure if all the pictures are as a result of sea overtopping.

Options Considered:

1. Do nothing.

2. Raise the height of the existing coastal defence (wall).

3. Provide a wave return on the existing coastal defence (wall).

4. Provide a secondary "Set Back Defence".

5. Provide a new sea wall.

The preferred option is to build a secondary “Set Back Defence” (a wall to you and me). The image illustrates how this might look. We say might because:

The illustration shows an artist's impression of a stone-block wall (whereas a concrete wall is proposed), and the wall would probably be built to run between two rows of beach huts (not in front of them).

Attachments

Comments


Tuesday 8 December 2020 18:03
- Jan MacLeod
Why not a wave return & a set back defence?
I think a block wall would be more in keeping & look better than concrete.

Wednesday 9 December 2020 17:46
- Anonymous
What consideration being given to Goodrington North and South Sands.

Wednesday 16 December 2020 14:59
- Maggie Loates
These illustrations are ugly and not what is proposed. The wall will be of concrete and will be adorned with sculpture, decorations and other things to mitigate its impact. It will not look like a row of bricks or stones.

Thursday 14 January 2021 14:38
- Maurice Lidster
How do you propose to stop persons climbing on the top of the wall and then running across the top of the beach huts?

How high will the wall be?

The exact height of the walls are yet to be confirmed. There are effectively three walls: Preston, and Paignton (either side of the pier).

The predictions are based on twenty years and fifty years of climate change. It is not clear at this stage whether walls of lower height will be built (and raised later) or the highest built at the outset. Having said that, the schematic drawings (listed below) do show the possibility that the walls could be extended in height.

After 20 years of climate change:

Preston Green: 1.50m

Paignton Green, North of Pier: 1.10m

Paignton Green, South of Pier: 1.00m

50 years of climate change:

Preston Green: 1.80m

Paignton Green, North of Pier: 1.40m

Paignton Green, South of Pier: 1.30m

Comments


Wednesday 13 January 2021 23:32
- Anonymous
This is guess work, sea levels locally have not altered for the 30+ years I have been a paignton boat owner. Please make sure everyone in Torbay knows about these plans and actually listen to the general opinion of the local people

Wall Positioning

The positioning of the walls is currently being determined. The following images illustrate the current proposals given certain desirable outcomes.

1. The wall would run behind the (recently refurbished) shelters ensuring that (three sides) have the same sea views that they currently have. The (currently) green-facing sides, however, would have close-up views of the wall.

2. Where there are two rows of beach huts (back-to-back), the wall would run between them; thus ensuring no change to the views both from, and of, the huts. The image also illustrates the need for gates in the wall to allow both pedestrian and vehicular access.

3. At the Redcliffe Hotel end of the Paignton wall an innovative gate solution will be required.

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Wednesday 9 December 2020 14:35
- Anonymous
King Canute found out to his cost that it is not possible to hold back the sea.

Wall Design and Inspiration

For several reasons, the Council does not want an ugly plain concrete wall.

Incorporating design into the wall itself is seen as crucial to its acceptance by locals and even to add to tourism in a positive way (ideally). The images give examples of what is possible.

The lobster pots illustrate a local theme; as would be “telling Paignton’s story”.

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Wednesday 16 December 2020 15:01
- Maggie Loates
These designs are much better and will make the wall look much more attractive and less of an eyesore.

Thursday 14 January 2021 15:38
- Anonymous
Make a stone wall in keeping with current defences not cheap concrete rubbish with a design that looks rubbish after 2 years

Thursday 4 February 2021 13:48
- Anonymous
Has the the council considered the obvious attraction to graffitti artists. A visit to Bristol shows how the place can look like when left to theses amateur artists. This will surely downgrade Paignton if left unchecked and cost the council considerable monies to keep rectifying the damage done. The businesses facing this wall would not like a graffiti eyesore for its guests to look at instead of a beautiful sea view.

Monday 15 February 2021 10:57
- Lionel Uden
One design very relevant to Paignton would be a Singer Sewing Machine.

What Torbay Council Wants

It is clear from the two presentations that the Forum has had so far (with a third promised) that the Council wants input from the local community.

However, this input is not of the “should we have a wall?” type but rather the “what should the wall look like?” type.

Specifically:

What designs to incorporate into the wall?

Where to locate the breaks in the wall?

Where to locate the up and over crossing points (that are compliant with the Equality Act 2010)?

How to close the gaps: logs or gates?

 

Comments


Saturday 12 December 2020 22:30
- Andy
The fact that the Council again are biasing a consultation to justify their already made decision is disgusting. Please keep on putting information to the forum so we can all be informed and protest where we can.

Wednesday 13 January 2021 23:36
- Anonymous
Once again Torbay Council will not listen to the local people, this area of land has a covenant placed upon it also, it's just a shame the council abuses its power to rent out areas of the green and make massive changes with no local peoples viewpoint.

These are the plans for discussion.

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Thursday 14 January 2021 15:35
- Anonymous
Set wall further to edge of all greens no need to alter anything on existing shelters or split beach huts

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Tuesday 15 December 2020 21:30
- Amanda Warrington
Where can I see these proposed plans as can’t enlarge to see them on my phone?
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